I have copied below the complete text from a guy ‘david’ who has the balls to actually defend torture as a justified practice. Ill try to overlook his personal attacks (like I’m simple minded). Why is it that people have to attack the person rather than their ideas and facts?
Just saw the edward murrow movie. Sounds like mccarthyism. I must be a communist or worse a defender of terrorists.
Funny that after the movie my parents used the same argument as david below that these are ‘different’ times, the enemy doesn’t where a uniform, we can’t protect individual rights when many lives are at stake. Terrorism is the new communism.
My point to them and my new friend david is that a country that allows its govt to resort to torture and denying individual civil rights has lost the very freedoms it hopes to protect.
Like edward murrow I am willing to stand up and say this is not ok. If I must face personal attacks I welcome them. But david you’ll have to fire some heavier guns. Common, dude, you’re still using the WMD defense when bush has even given that one up!
And how about pointing to one breakthrough from all this torture?
And you say these are enemy combatants. How do you know that?
Suicide missions all over the world? As a jew I am more sympathetic to this than most, having to watch innocent israelis get blown up by terrorists every week. I realize that like israel america may have to take new measures to protect itself. However, israel has to answer for its actions and so should we.
You say I should propose an alternative. How about giving these people fair representation (as we are doing for saddam)? How about returning most of them to their home countries? We didn’t even keep the nazi soldiers imprisoned this long after perpetrating the holocaust!
And david, just what valuable information do you think we’re going to learn from some guy who has been living in a cave in afganistan? Compare this potential to the damage we’ve caused to our intl reputation. Think how many more enemies we’ve created. Do you really feel safer now than on 9/12/01? I sure don’t.
You say you’re sickened by my moral indignation. I’m sickened by my lack of indignation. I’m sickened for standing by while a bunch of corrupt, lying, religious wackos have turned our country into the most feared and hated nation since rome, attacking any dissenter as unamerican. THEY are unamerican.
(Here’s david’s comments unedited…)
“What nonsense! … I’m sorry you feel that our elimination of dictatorial control over two countries (one responsible for systematic extermination of hundreds of thousands, the other easily the most repressive in the world), enabling democratic reform, rule of law, etc. can earn comparisons to Hitler and Stalin in your simple mind. How pathetic.
If you want to argue whether terrorists, captured on the battlefield, are entitled to U.S. Constitutional rights- you better come prepared for a long discussion. That is a ridiculous concept. Am I against torture- of course, who isn’t- but the question remains how do we treat an enemy that is not responsible to any nation, but an ideology?
Geneva, and any other International Convention, were not set up for this form of warfare. You are dealing with an enemy that has systematically unleashed suicide missions all over the world. They cowardly target civilians to terrorize and inflict the worst form of reaction from a government- appeasement. Putting aside the WMD argument (falling into the wrong hands and killing thousands of innocents), do you really think that tying our hands, in interrogating terrorists, who may have knowledge that helps prevent losses similar to those experienced on 9/11 is smart policy? If you say yes, then check your head. Thousands of innocent civilians vs. the rights of a terrorist…hmm?
If you want to have a serious debate, pose a solution. Otherwise, the moral indignation you pose is sickening.”
Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry from T-Mobile.